Potential
Spoilers Below
I keep telling everyone that
similarities between The Wheel of Time (TWOT) and A Song of Ice and Fire
(ASOIAF) are vast even if there are those out there that say otherwise. Below is an interview that was
conducted with Robert Jordan, the writer of the Wheel of Time, that perfectly
sums up what I believe is going on with ASOIAF in terms of the type of circular
time it is utilizing. The red highlighted
text is what I deem important to what
I believe.
Laura Wilson:
Hi, This is Laura Wilson of Audio Renaissance, and I'm speaking with
Robert Jordan. How
did you decide to start writing the Wheel of Time series?
Robert Jordan:
I began writing the Wheel of Time because a great many notions had been
bouncing around inside my head and they started to coalesce. I wondered what it
was really like to be tapped on the shoulder and told you were born to be the
savior of mankind. I didn't think it would be very much the way it is in so
many books where someone pops up and says, "Hi, I was born to be the
savior of mankind, and here's the prophecy," and everybody says, "Oh
well, let's go then." I thought self interest would play a big part.
And, I
was also wondering about the source of legends and myths. They can't all be
anthropomorphizations of natural events. Some of them have to be distortions of
things that actually happened, distortions by being passed down over generations.
And that led into the distortion of information over distance, whether that's
temporal distance or spatial distance. The further you are in time or space
from the actual event, the less likely you are to know what really happened.
And then finally there was the thought about something that happens in
Tolkien and a lot of other places. The wise old wizard shows up in a country
village and says, "You must follow me to save the world." And the
villagers say, "Right then, guv, off we go!" Well, I did a lot of
growing up in the country, and I've always thought that what those country folk
would say is, "Oh, is that so? Look here, have another beer. Have two, on
me. I'll be right back. I will, really." And then slip out the back door.
There were a lot of things that came together, and even once I started,
of course, a lot of things built in, and added in, and changed.
Laura Wilson:
What
about this notion of time as a wheel? Is that your idea?
Robert Jordan:
No. It's
not mine. It is from Hindu mythology that time is a wheel. But actually, most
eastern cultures believed that time was circular. The Greeks gave us the great
gift of believing that time was linear. And that's a great gift because if time
is circular, if everything repeats in cycles, then change is impossible. No
matter what you do, it's always going to come back to what is here. But if time
is linear, then change is possible. But I wanted the circularity because I
wanted, again, to go into the changes by distance. So, the myths and legends
and a few of the stories that these people tell, well, some of them are based
on our own current events, on the present. What they are doing is based on our
myths and legends. So they are the source of our myths and legends, and we are
the source of theirs.
Laura Wilson:
So what religions or mythological traditions are your stories based on?
Robert Jordan:
Different religions, different mythologies. I felt that because America
is a melting pot, I had at least some right to mine the mythologies of any nation
that is represented in the United States, and also religion. So there are
elements that come out of religious books, and there are elements that come out
of mythologies, as well. Not done in a mythological way. I try to present these
things so that you feel you are in a place that is quite real, and this could
actually happen
Laura Wilson:
Tell me a bit about the idea of the One Power.
Robert Jordan:
In these books there is the One Power, which comes from the True Source. And the One Power is what
turns the Wheel of Time, the power that drives the universe. And the conceit
is, is the One Power actually consists of two quite separate halves that work
with each other and against one another to produce the driving force of the
universe. Men can tap into one side, women can tap into the other. A man can't
teach a woman how to use the male half, or how to use the female half for that
matter, and she can't teach him.
Laura Wilson:
Are you an audiobooks listener? And if so, what sorts of books do you
listen to?
Robert Jordan:
I'm afraid the audiobooks I listen to are my own. I don't read my own
books, but when I get the new audio tape, I listen to it because I get a
different view. It is different than reading it.
Laura Wilson:
So are you listening for a different interpretation of your work?
Robert Jordan:
It's not so much the different interpretation. I want to have that
one-removed to see that I actually said what I think I said. You see, that's a
problem that is very difficult for any writer. It's a problem that your editor
helps you solve. You know what you intended to say. You know what you meant.
And the fact that you perhaps didn't put it down clearly enough for someone who
doesn't know what you meant to understand, that can be a problem. My wife
Harriet is my editor, and she's very very good at being able to say, "You
didn't convince me here." Or, "I don't understand what you mean here.
You have to do better." Because that's the point where I know what I meant,
and because I know what I meant, it read fine to me. But to someone who didn't
know what I meant, it didn't read fine. Well, I can also spot some of that in
listening to the audio. And because I can spot it in listening to the audio, I
know that, ahh, I thought I had put a bit of foreshadowing for something of the
future here, and it doesn't come across clearly, I must do something about that
in the next book to make sure that I do have that foreshadowing.
Laura Wilson:
Well thank you very much for talking with me.
The first section speaking on
the “distortion
of information over distance” isn’t
anything new but it is the cornerstone of what is happening with the ASOIAF
series. Who are the White
Walkers? What do
they truly want? Who is the R’hllor and the Great Other and why are they diametrically
opposed to each other? How could any of
these events be obscured over time? How
could the Night’s Watch forget its prime
directive and how did it morph into what it is now? What happened to make people forget such
world-shattering events? My personal
theory suggest that it was done with religion.
R’hllor to be exact. I think the
true enemy are the Children of the Forest (COTF). I believe that they have the same ability as Bran and they used visions to push ideas to people
who became their followers and basically brainwashed the population as to what
truly happened. You can click here to
view my theory on that.
The second section is what I
think will be revealed to be happening with the stories that have become the
bedrock to the series (i.e. Lann the Clever, the Rat
Cook, the Night King, Azor
Ahai etc.)
Why are these stories
repeating? The quote: “So, the myths and
legends and a few of the stories that these people tell, well, some of them are
based on our own current events, on the present. What they are doing is based
on our myths and legends. So, they are the source of our myths and legends, and
we are the source of theirs” is key.
That is because that is exactly what seems to be happening but I see it
happening just like that but only with a twist.
I don’t think the stories that we are told of the past actually took
place at all. I think Bran became so
powerful that he was able to physically transport himself back to the
past. Think of it, Bran see’s everything
taking place in his own time and he gets to a point where the Night King or one of his lieutenants come upon him
and are about to kill him and he does something new and finds himself out of
harms way but not in the current time either.
Click here and
here to
see the stories that were shown in the TV show that represent stories that have
been passed down through the centuries.
The biggest unsolved mystery is how did Azor Ahai actually defeated the Others
in the first place. There isn’t much
given on that point and I think the reason is obvious. Bran had to go back before whatever took place
happened. So, the story over time has
been passed down with “fill in the blank” because
the “how of it” wasn’t
known to him. Perhaps the most famous
story of the defeat of the Others is a half truth as it were. I liken it to the unsaid truth that Ned Stark let people believe on how
Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the
Morning, was defeated.
The books kind of tell us that
Bran somehow finds himself in the past when the following story is told:
“Five more castles he built, each larger and stronger than the last,
only to see them smashed asunder when the gale winds came howling up Shipbreaker Bay, driving great walls
of water before them. His lords pleaded with him to build inland; his priests
told him he must placate the gods by giving Elenei back to the sea; even his smallfolk begged him to relent. Durran would
have none of it. A seventh castle he raised, most massive of all. Some said the
children of the forest helped him build it, shaping the stones with magic; others claimed that
a small boy told him what he must do, a boy who would grow to be Bran the Builder.
No matter how the tale was told, the end was the same. Though the angry gods
threw storm after storm against it, the seventh castle stood defiant, and
Durran Godsgrief and fair Elenei dwelt there together until the end of their
days.”
HBO showed us a picture of
Bran the Builder when they released the Season 1 DVD and showed him directing
the building of the Wall.
He was being carried around and shown pointing out to others what he
wanted them to do. Why would someone
building the Wall have others carry him around when those men could have been
used in the task of building said Wall?
I say he couldn’t walk because he was indeed our Bran Stark.
If you have followed me so
far, I think the rest is pretty easy to digest.
He completes the Wall and passes down his stories as tales that had
already happened. Why did he do
this? He wanted to ensure that when the
time actually came men wouldn’t be caught totally off guard. He knew how the stories excited him as a boy
and knew they wouldn’t be forgotten. He
also did it to counter the COTF and the god they represent R’hllor. Below is what Melisandre said
within the books:
“The way the world is made. The truth is all around you, plain to
behold. The night is dark and full of terrors, the day bright and beautiful and
full of hope. One is black, the other white. There is ice and there is fire.
Hate and love. Bitter and sweet. Male and female. Pain and pleasure. Winter and
summer. Evil and good.” She took a step toward him. “Death and life.
Everywhere, opposites. Everywhere, the war.”
“The war?” asked Davos.
“The war,” she affirmed. “There are two, Onion Knight. Not seven, not
one, not a hundred or a thousand. Two! Do you think I crossed half the world to
put yet another vain king on yet another empty throne? The war has been waged
since time began, and before it is done, all men must choose where they will
stand. On one side is R’hllor, the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of
Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other whose name may not be
spoken, the Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror.
Ours is not a choice between Baratheon and
Lannister, between Greyjoy and
Stark. It is death we choose, or life.
Darkness, or light.” She clasped the bars of his cell with her slender white
hands. The great ruby at her throat seemed to pulse with its own radiance. “So
tell me, Ser Davos Seaworth, and tell me truly—does your heart burn with the
shining light of R’hllor? Or is it black and cold and full of worms?” She
reached through the bars and laid three fingers upon his breast, as if to feel
the truth of him through flesh and wool and leather.”
“A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a
moment … but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was
this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me.
Beside him, a boy with a wolf’s face threw back his head and howled.”
In the first excerpt
Melisandre tells us of her god R’hllor and his enemy the Great Other. She sees Bloodraven with
Bran in the second excerpt and thinks that they are the enemy because R’hllor
(aka COTF in my opinion) let her think that to be the case. So, what does it actually mean? When Bran goes back, he isn’t exactly
changing the future because it will all play out the way it already did. He is the one that caused the events to be
the way they are all along. Hodor doesn’t get PTSD, from seeing his own death, after
Bran is born; because Bran will go back to do it he is that way regardless;
essentially the effect coming before the cause.
Hodor becomes Hodor, Jojen and
Meera come to Winterfell to
escort Bran to the 3EC, Jon Snow finds the Horn of Winter all because Bran nudged
things here and there because that is what he always did it. You ever had anything happen that you
couldn’t quite explain that caused you to turn left or right or do this or
that? Well that is what Bran is doing
only he is doing it on a scale that covers the world. But sadly the day comes when he has to catch
up to where he jumped away to begin with and nothing that he did stopped the
threat from advancing. Well he has one
thing that nobody else does and that is the benefit of seeing it all and his
greatest ability. He knows and has seen
everything from the time he jumped back to the beginning. And in all that time I think he finally came
up with a plan. Click here to
see that plan per my theory.
Another thing that is said that I believe is key
in the Wheel of Time, that is utilized in ASOIAF, is what most people say about
Aes Sedai:
“You see, lad, Aes Sedai are tricksome. They don’t lie, not right out, but
the truth an Aes Sedai tells you is not always the truth you think it is.”
I think that plays out in the
form of prophecies in ASOIAF. Bran in
this case being the Aes Sedai. He
doesn’t lie but the truth that he tells you is not always the truth you think
it is. Case in point Jojen’s green dreams
or any other prophecies for that matter:
“Tell me the bad thing you dreamed,” Bran said. “The bad thing that is
coming to Winterfell.”
“Does my lord prince believe me now? Will he trust my words, no matter
how queer they sound in his ears?”
“Bran nodded.
“It is the sea that comes.”
“The sea?”
“I dreamed that the sea was lapping all around Winterfell. I saw black waves
crashing against the gates and towers, and then the salt water came flowing
over the walls and filled the castle. Drowned men were floating in the yard.
When I first dreamed the dream, back at Greywater, I didn’t know their faces,
but now I do. That Alebelly is
one, the guard who called our names at the feast. Your septon’s another.
Your smith as well.”
“Mikken?”
Bran was as confused as he was dismayed. “But the sea is hundreds and hundreds
of leagues away, and Winterfell’s walls are so high the water couldn’t get in
even if it did come.”
“In the dark of night the salt sea will flow over these walls,” said
Jojen. “I saw the dead, bloated and drowned.”
“We have to tell them,” Bran said. “Alebelly and Mikken, and Septon Chayle.
Tell them not to drown.”
“It will not save them,” replied the boy in green.
Meera came to the window seat and put a hand on his shoulder. “They
will not believe, Bran. No more than you did.”
“Jojen sat on Bran’s bed. “Tell me what you dream.”
Theon and
the ironborn that followed him were the sea that came over the
Winterfell walls to capture it. I know
why it had to be shrouded in mystery and wrapped in an enigma. Had he known and said straight out what was going to
happen; things would have played out totally differently. Maybe vague dream and imagery to those with “greensight” is the only way it can be interpreted
by those who hear the “whispers” aka the wind. I really think that this is just the
reimagining of how characters within TWOT see Aes Sedai and the truth they
speak playing out in ASOIAF. The
prophecies all seem to come true but had you known what they meant in the first
place you could have averted the danger to begin with.
Below is the mantra for TWOT
series:
“The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that
become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the
Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the Third Age by some,
an Age yet to come, an Age long past, a wind rose…. The wind was not the
beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel
of time. But it was a beginning.”
This is exactly what I see
happening within ASOIAF and you guessed it Bran himself is the wind.
 |
| Is is sacrilege to pray to yourself |
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| At this point in the story does Bran know that he is looking at himself? |
Dany within
the TV show has said that she is going to “break the wheel”.
Is it possible? Can she do what
no character within TWOT could do and break the restraints of circular time? Within TWOT universe it is said that no one
inside of the Pattern can
destroy the Wheel. I personally think that Dany is going to go
dark and maybe on the lines with the Dark One. With that being said the Dark One exists
outside of the Wheel. Click here to
see my theory on Dany.
Well again that's my two cents, what do you think? The source of the interview
with Robert Jordan can be found here
I show you this as a lot of people
for some reason think I am making this stuff up. I am not.
I am only trying to show you what I see and you can draw your own
conclusions.
Comments encouraged. Love to hear the idea’s of
others. Most believe that since I present my idea’s as “fact like” I’m
not open to change my viewpoints which is far from the truth. I simply look
at the information presented and go from there. If you can shine a light
on another way of thinking that opens the door to debate.
