Tuesday, March 12, 2019

What if the Prince/Princess that was Promised fails?


Potential Spoilers Below

I keep telling everyone that similarities between The Wheel of Time (TWOT) and A Song of Ice and Fire (ASOIAF) are vast even if there are those out there that say otherwise.

I was thinking what if the Dragon Reborn fell to the Shadow and was turned to the Dark One, what would have happened.  There were 2 more Ta’veren although not as strong as Rand but would they have been enough to save the day?  Rand was temped so many times but every time he held strong and persevered.  They were also afraid that Rand would go mad because of the taint on saidin.  Ser Barristan Selmy said that every time a Targaryen is born the gods toss a coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land.  It was referred to also as the taint.



“Thirteen of the most powerful Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends, the weakest of them stronger than the ten strongest Aes Sedai living today, the most ignorant with all the knowledge of the Age of Legends. And every man and woman of them gave up the Light and dedicated their souls to the Shadow. What if they are free, and out there waiting for him? I will not let them have him.”


13 Forsaken

13 White Walkers thought to exist only in the Age of Heroes


Turn Craster's son to their side


“The memories fade,” Moiraine said, just as quietly. She did not look away from her distant vision, and her voice was almost chill enough to take away the heat in the air. “Most are already gone. Some, I knew already. Others . . . . The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern. I have given my life to finding the Dragon Reborn, finding Rand, and seeing him ready to face the Last Battle. I will see that done, whatever it requires. Nothing and no one can be more important than that.”


There were 3 Ta’veren (Rand, Perrin & Mat).  There are 3 Targaryen’s (Daenerys, Jon Snow & Tyrion).  Rand was the strongest of the 3 ta’veren’s and Perrin and Mat were drawn to him.  Dany seems to be the strongest Targaryen and Jon and Tyrion seem to be drawn to her.  Rand conquered cities but things didn’t go quite so well and war broke out as a result.  Dany conquered cities with the same result.  Both were unlikely leaders when their stories began but they drew people to themselves.  Perrin eventually went back home to Emond’s Field, in the Two Rivers, after learning it was under attack from Myrddraal and Trollocs and was able to pull his village together and save his people.  Jon Snow convinced everyone that Winterfell was the place to draw their line in the sand against the White Walkers and the Wights in an attempt to save his home.  Mat the unlikeliest of heroes got men to follow him even though he was always chasing women and always considered immature and a prankster.  He ended up leading the Band of the Red Hand into battle which consisted of members from 5 nations; Tear, Cairhien, Altara, Andor and Murandy.  Tyrion who was also always chasing women, in the form of whores, and was never taken serious due to the fact that he was a dwarf.  Tyrion also found himself in a position where he also led men into battle who consisted of 5 tribes; The Stone Crows, The Burned Men, The Black Ears, The Moon Brothers and The Painted Dogs.  What I am trying to make you see these characters seem to fall into the same mold as their counterparts.  But what happens if as I think will occur; Dany falls to the Shadow; TWOT speak?  Will the other two be able to get the job done in her place?  Melisandre is Moiraine’s counterpart and she I believe will give her life in the finding and helping the Prince/Princess that was Promised to fulfill the prophecy.


A Myrddraal leading Trollics into battle

A White Walker leading Wights into battle

“They should stop hoping and do something.” For a moment Perrin felt abashed. He had not been living here; he had no idea what it was like. But he was still right. As long as the people hid behind the Children of the Light, they would have to put up with whatever the Children wanted to do, whether taking books or arresting women and girls. “Tomorrow I’ll take a look at this Whitecloak camp. There has to be some way to free them. And once they are, we can turn our attention to Trollocs.  A Warder once told me Trollocs call the Aiel Waste ‘the Dying Ground.’ I mean to make them give that name to the Two Rivers.”



Will Winterfell become the Dying Ground to the White Walkers or humanity?



On Braavos, it had seemed possible that Aemon might recover. Xhondo’s talk of dragons had almost seemed to restore the old man to himself. That night he ate every bite Sam put before him. “No one ever looked for a girl,” he said. “It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought . . . the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King’s Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it.” Just talking of her seemed to make him stronger. “I must go to her. I must. Would that I was even ten years younger.”



Dragons are neither male nor female; but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame.  If Dany falls who would rise to take her place.  I think that Jon will and I also think that his having the better claim to the Iron Throne will be the reason why; even though it matters not to him.  I think the people that now follow them both will decide that Jon’s tactics or way of doing things are better and will start following him more and she will not be able to accept it and will cause a rift that will lead her to the dark side.  I wrote a blog not too long ago that shows how they basically mirror each other eerily.  They are both shown in scenes from the TV show that perfectly captures how men and women embrace the One Power, in TWOT, saidin and saidar respectively.  Click here to see that blog that basically shows them as interchangeable.  




“Rand changed the subject. “What was ‘the sharing of water’?”

The clan chief’s eyebrows lifted in surprise. “You did not recognize it? But then, I do not see why you should; you have not grown up with the histories. According the oldest stories, from the day the Breaking of the World began until the day we first entered the Three-fold Land, only one people did not attack us. One people allowed us water freely when it was needed. It took us long to discover who they were. That is done with, now. The pledge of peace was destroyed; the treekillers spat in our faces.”

“Cairhien,” Rand said. “You’re talking about Cairhien, and Avendoral-dera, and Laman cutting down the Tree.”

“Laman is dead for his punishment,” Rhuarc said in a flat voice. “The oathbreakers are done with.” He looked at Rand sideways.

“Some, such as Couladin, take it for proof we can trust no one who is not Aiel. That is a part of why he hates you. A part of it. He will take your face and blood for lies. Or claim he does.”

Rand shook his head. Moiraine sometimes talked of the complexity of Age Lace, the Pattern of an Age, woven by the Wheel of Time from the thread of human lives. If the ancestors of the Cairhienin had not allowed the Aiel to have water three thousand years ago, then Cairhien would never have been given the right to use the Silk Path across the Waste, with a cutting from Avendesora for a pledge. No pledge, and King Laman would have had no Tree to cut down; there would have been no Aiel War; and he could not have been born on the side of Dragonmount to be carried off and raised in the Two Rivers. How many more points like that had there been, where a single decision one way or another affected the weave of the Pattern for thousands of years? A thousand times a thousand tiny branching points, a thousand times that many, all twitching the Pattern into a different design. He himself was a walking branching point, and maybe Mat and Perrin, too. What they did or did not do would send ripples ahead through the years, through the Ages.



Think of it.  Had not the First Men cut down the weirwood trees to begin with would we be here today?  Would the Starks have risen to prominence or have even existed?  Would there have been a Lyanna to run off with Rhaeger to start Robert’s Rebellion and leading to Jon Snow being born at the Tower of Joy?  What happens in a story where the hero doesn’t quite cut it?  Will another step up to take his/her place or does everything just fall apart?  With this being ASOIAF who knows!

Comments encouraged.  Love to hear the idea’s of others.  Most believe that since I present my idea’s as “fact like” I’m not open to change my viewpoints which is far from the truth.  I simply look at the information presented and go from there.  If you can shine a light on another way of thinking that opens the door to debate.

2 comments:

  1. The following excerpt is why I think Dany will fail and turn to the dark side also. Nothing will work out the way the stories from the past say they did when it actually comes to Azor Ahai because it hasn't truly happened yet.

    A month. He rubbed his chin. Too long. Too long, and no choice. In stories, things always happened as the hero planned, seemingly when he wanted them to happen. In real life it rarely occurred that way, even for a ta’veren with prophecy supposedly working for him. In real life it was scratch and hope, and luck if you found more than half a loaf where you needed a whole. Yet a part of his plan was following the path he had hoped for. The most dangerous part.

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  2. Dany’s dragons convinced people to follow her for now but once Jon’s claim is made clear people will want to follow him. This will cause the rift between her and Jon Snow:


    “As I was saying,” Rhuarc said, frowning resignedly from one of his wives to the other, “it is not a thing I can be sure of. Most will follow you. Perhaps all. Perhaps even the Shaido. We have waited three thousand years for the man who bears two Dragons. When you show your arms, none will doubt you are the one sent to unite us.” And break them; but he did not mention that. “The question is how they will decide to react.” He tapped his teeth with his pipestem for a moment. “You will not change your mind and don the cadin’sor?”

    “And show them what, Rhuarc? A pretend Aiel? As well dress Mat for Aiel.” Mat choked on his pipe. “I will not pretend. I am what I am; they must take me as I am.” Rand raised his fists, coatsleeves falling enough to uncover the golden-maned heads on the backs of his wrists. “These prove me. If they aren’t enough, then nothing is.”

    “Where do you mean to ‘lead the spears to war once more’?” Moiraine asked suddenly, and Mat choked again, snatching the pipe out of his mouth and staring at her. Her dark eyes were not lidded any longer.


    Couladin’s claim of being the Dragon Reborn also sent shock throughout the gathered Aiel. He showed the dragons on his arms placed their by the Forsaken. But the truth of Rhuidean, spoken by Rand al’Thor, eventually told the Aiel Clan Chiefs who had been to Rhuidean that Rand spoke the truth and caused war between Couladin and the Shaido and the rest of the Aiel who now followed Rand. This will be the reverse in ASOIAF. Dany by her dragons has basically fulfilled the Azor Ahai prophecy but the knowledge of Jon Snow’s parentage will cause a rift between them. She won’t be able to overlook that truth and her path will lead to the dark side.

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